MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
Since the protests in Los Angeles against President Trump's deportation policies began, the White House has used specific language to describe what's happening. Here is how Trump phrased it yesterday.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: These are paid insurrectionists or agitators or troublemakers. You can call it whatever you want.
KELLY: NPR's Lisa Hagen has been monitoring how the rhetoric around these protests could reshape the national debate over immigration. Hey there.
LISA HAGEN, BYLINE: Hi, Mary Louise.
KELLY: So I understand you have been spending a lot of time online, social media accounts, looking around at pro-Trump media spaces. And so I want to start by asking, is what you are seeing there - the descriptions of these protests - is it echoing the president's terminology?
HAGEN: Absolutely. The two words I'm hearing the most are insurrection and invasion. There's been a lot of focus on images of demonstrators waving foreign flags. Here's some examples from former White House adviser Steve Bannon and right-wing activist Charlie Kirk.
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STEVE BANNON: You see the Mexican flags? You see the Palestinian flags? This is a war.
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CHARLIE KIRK: This is what invading armies do. They wave their flags. Los Angeles does not feel like a protest.
HAGEN: So obviously, invasions and insurrections are different things, but they are getting blended across right-wing media right now. And together, those are terms that could potentially criminalize any protester, U.S. citizen or not.
KELLY: Although I will note that we have heard President Trump using the word invasion in the same sentence as immigration for ages, for years. Are you hearing it used differently now?
HAGEN: You're right. It is usually used to describe asylum seekers and gangs, but that's been changing, according to First Amendment litigator Ken White.
KELLY: OK.
HAGEN: He was saying, this term, Trump has already invoked the Alien Enemies Act to try to suspend due process for Venezuelan immigrants he's accused of being gang members.
KEN WHITE: The conceit here is that people who are here illegally are part of a enemy invading force, like an army.
HAGEN: And he says Trump is now using these protests to broaden that category.
WHITE: He also seems to be trying to use rhetoric that would be a justification for uses of tools like the Insurrection Act or for his asserted broader executive power to do pretty much whatever he wants to do.
KELLY: So Lisa, we're hearing here about a couple of the relevant laws that are in play. The Alien Enemies Act you mentioned, Trump has already invoked that. He has not invoked - at least not yet - the Insurrection Act, which we just heard White refer to there. Remind us what the Insurrection Act does. What would trigger it?
HAGEN: So parts of it are actually quite vague and open to interpretation. Essentially, it would allow the president to use the armed forces to take any measures he considers necessary to suppress an insurrection. Here's White again.
WHITE: You'll hear the administration trying to echo those words - well, we say it's an insurrection, therefore, the Insurrection Act applies.
HAGEN: He says it's a power that really hasn't been through a lot of legal testing, so just like with the Alien Enemies Act, the courts would have a lot to try to untangle. So media coverage and framing by the administration will have some impact on how courts evaluate whatever measures Trump may take, whether it's in LA or somewhere else.
KELLY: Fascinating. So an open question - what else is catching your eye as you poke around on these websites and look at what pro-Trump media figures and influencers are posting?
HAGEN: So on Monday, we saw some very high-profile MAGA influencers - Charlie Kirk, who we already heard from, right-wing filmmaker Matt Walsh and Jack Posobiec - all post nearly identical messages to, quote, "ban all third-world immigration, legal or illegal," unquote. That's a departure from the longtime Republican framing on immigration, which is usually, like, some version of, we don't hate immigrants. We just want them to come here legally.
KELLY: NPR's Lisa Hagen, thank you.
HAGEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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