MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
So let's talk more about that, about how this is playing out with Trump's base. We've called Republican strategist Alex Conant for this. He's with us now. He served as communications director for Marco Rubio's 2016 presidential campaign, and he's now a partner with Firehouse Strategies. Good morning, Alex. Thanks for joining us again.
ALEX CONANT: Good morning. Good to be back with you.
MARTIN: Just a quick - what's your quick take on how President Trump and his administration are handling this issue?
CONANT: Well, not well, clearly. I mean, this is not what they want to be talking about. I think you see their frustration starting to bubble over in the president's tone and his lengthy tweets earlier this week, where he was attacking his own supporters for fixating on this. Look, the president wants to be talking about his wins in the Middle East. He wants to be selling his tax reform bill. He wants to be talking about his success at the border. And just as you just reported, he had two more wins in Congress last night, one in the House, one in the Senate. That's what he wants to be talking about heading into this fall. Instead, his reporters are fixated on this decade-old scandal that he can't ever make them happy on, and it's deeply frustrating to him. And so he's attacking his own base, which only drives it more, of course, now that - now you see Democrats piling on, proposing congressional hearings into all this. It's become a distraction that is threatening to take over parts of his agenda. It's a real problem for them.
MARTIN: So this whole thing about slamming his supporters, calling them stupid, saying they're doing the Democrats' dirty work for them. In one of those social media posts, he said he didn't want their support anymore. Unusual to be slamming your supporters like this, but is this useful in any way in tamping this down?
CONANT: It's very unusual for Trump. I mean, one of the things that has really marked his political career is that he never allows any daylight between himself and his base. You think back to the first term, where he took so much heat over immigration, enforcement at the border vis-a-vis families and then so much heat during the pandemic with masks and the way he treated Fauci. And he always ends up siding with his base. And so I can't think of another time where he's attacked his own base like this for disagreeing with him on something. And I think it's just evidence that he is just so frustrated that they want to talk about something that's not helpful politically and he wants to talk about things that do help him politically with independents, with moderates heading into...
MARTIN: OK.
CONANT: ...The midterms next year.
MARTIN: So can you do me a favor? Back up for a second because there are some...
CONANT: Yes.
MARTIN: ...People who are going to be listening to this and be saying, what is this about, even really? So why do you think this issue resonates so much with Trump's base? Because it clearly does.
CONANT: Well, look, I think there's a lot of political opponents of his base that have been kind of wrapped up in the Epstein scandals over the years, just through their social connections or business connections with him. Obviously, the way that Epstein died was very suspicious in the minds of the base. And there's become all this media built up around it. Books have been written, podcasts, TV shows about it. And people have just gotten really wrapped up in the scandal, thinking that there's a lot more to it, including a lot of famous people.
MARTIN: But aren't people in his own administration wrapped up in it? I mean, people in the sense of being part of making this a thing, like his FBI director, his deputy FBI director. I mean...
CONANT: Absolutely. Now, to be clear, they peddled a lot of conspiracies, this being one of them, but then they get put in charge of the FBI. And I think that the other issue here is that there's just a real mismanagement of expectations with his base vis-a-vis what the administration is actually able to deliver, in part because he put in the FBI director and the deputy FBI director, in part because they promised to get to the bottom of the Epstein issues.
MARTIN: So the Elon Musk role in this. He's been posting about this a lot this week. Obviously, I think most people know they had a falling out, but at one point, saying, if this is all a hoax, why is Ghislaine Maxwell, the associate of Epstein's, why is she in prison for sex trafficking connected to Epstein? Is Musk a part of this, or is he kind of an ancillary character because it already was a big thing?
CONANT: Well, I think he and lots of other people are piling on at this point. You know, I think anyone who has an axe to grind with the president views this as a scab that they can pick at 'cause they know that Trump doesn't have good answers at this point because in his mind and the Justice Department's mind, they have released everything on this that they are legally allowed to release, and their hands are really tied moving forward, and yet it's not enough for people like Musk and his opponents.
MARTIN: So before we let you go, does this have legs?
CONANT: Well, we'll see. I mean, nobody changes the topic better than Donald Trump, and he has a lot to talk about these days. That said, his base is not going to ever be satisfied on this unless they're able to somehow provide more information.
MARTIN: And why not, though? I mean, you have about 20 seconds. Why not? Why can't they be satisfied?
CONANT: Just because they - look, you can't believe - people who are so invested in an idea, in a conspiracy, you can't convince them that they're wrong without evidence.
MARTIN: OK.
CONANT: And the administration is having trouble providing evidence that they're wrong.
MARTIN: That is Alex Conant. He's a Republican strategist with Firehouse Strategies. Alex, thanks so much.
CONANT: Thank you.
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