A look at the next pandemic with Michael T. Osterholm

By Jonathan McNicol

Published October 9, 2025 at 1:00 PM EDT

DMD Steven Maltzer administers the first shot of the COVID-19 vaccine to mental health clinician Amy Ramirez LMSW as the City of Hartford’s Department of Health and Human Services hosted a vaccine clinic for Hartford residents 75 and over at Dunkin’ Donuts Park in Hartford, Connecticut on February 06, 2021. — Steven Maltzer administers the first shot of the COVID-19 vaccine to mental health clinician Amy Ramirez as the city of Hartford’s Department of Health and Human Services hosted a vaccine clinic for Hartford residents 75 and over at Dunkin’ Donuts Park in Hartford, Connecticut, on February 6, 2021.

COVID has caused more than 7 million confirmed deaths (and estimates of the actual total go well past 20 million).

Here’s the even worse news: It wasn’t the truly devastating pandemic epidemiologists have feared for decades.

But here’s the good news: We learned every possible lesson from COVID, and now we’re utterly prepared for the next big pandemic that’s inevitably barreling towards us.

No. Wait. Maybe I’ve gotten that last bit wrong.

This hour, Michael Osterholm, founding director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, joins us to talk about the dreaded potential “big one” and what we need to do to be ready.

GUEST:

Michael T. Osterholm: Founding director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota and the co-author of The Big One: How We Must Prepare for Future Deadly Pandemics

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Colin McEnroe contributed to this show.