A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
President Trump has repeatedly attacked antifa, a far-left movement opposed to fascism. Last month, Trump issued an executive order designating it as a domestic terrorist organization. Now, that order has no legal effect since there's no domestic terrorism statute. Then this month, the president talked about designating antifa as a foreign terrorist organization. NPR justice correspondent Ryan Lucas is here to explain all of this. So, Ryan, what exactly did President Trump say?
RYAN LUCAS, BYLINE: Well, it was two weeks ago that Trump hosted top administration officials, as well as some right-wing influencers, for a roundtable at the White House about antifa, which is shorthand for anti-fascist. Experts, as you noted, say antifa is not an organization. It is more of a movement or an ideology that is opposed to fascism. Now, towards the end of that meeting, Trump was asked whether he would designate antifa a foreign terrorist organization. Here's what he said.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You think it would help?
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: They have foreign links...
TRUMP: I'd be glad to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: ...All across Western Europe...
TRUMP: I think it's the kind of thing I'd like to do. If you'd like to...
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: ...The Middle East.
TRUMP: ...Does everybody agree? If you agree, I agree. Let's get it done, OK? Let's get it done. Marco, we'll take care of it.
LUCAS: Now, the Marco that Trump mentions there at the end is Secretary of State Marco Rubio. He was at the table, and Trump mentions Rubio because it is the State Department that has the legal authority to designate a foreign terrorist organization.
MARTÍNEZ: OK. So what's the process then to do that, to designate something as a foreign terrorist group?
LUCAS: So the State Department pulls together information called an administrative record on a given group when deciding whether to designate it. There is legal criteria. Is the entity in question an organization? Is it foreign? Is it engaged in terrorist activity that threatens Americans or U.S. national security interests? Experts tell me it would be difficult based on that criteria to designate antifa a foreign terrorist organization. Remember, experts say antifa isn't a cohesive organization. And then even if you try to characterize it as one, it has been described repeatedly - including by senior administration officials and the executive order earlier - as being inherently domestic, not foreign.
All of that said, experts I spoke with say that if the Trump administration really wants to do this, really wants to get it done, it could make a creative argument to push a designation over the line. And if it does so, the experts who I spoke with say that the reverberations of that, the potential consequences, would likely be massive and could touch on everything from social media to academia and financial institutions.
MARTÍNEZ: OK. In what way?
LUCAS: Well, one immediate thing that it would do is allow federal prosecutors to bring criminal charges of material support to a designated terrorist organization. This was a bread-and-butter charge against ISIS and al-Qaida supporters. It carries a sentence of up to 20 years in prison. And material support is very, very broadly defined. It could be something as small as a bottle of water or a $10 gift card. And if antifa is designated as a foreign terrorist organization, prosecutors could bring that charge against anyone associated with what the Trump administration is calling antifa to sweep up anything that the administration considers left wing. That's just the criminal liability.
Then there are the potential cascading effects as companies and institutions would look to avoid potential legal risk. So social media companies take their cues from the government on which groups are dangerous. Experts say they would likely take steps to restrict any communication on their platforms that could be seen as related to antifa. Universities - they could curtail conferences or research related to anti-fascism. Insurance companies - experts say they could think twice about insuring universities or foundations, think tanks that touch anything related to, again, this nebulous term antifa. And while a designation would be subject to legal challenge, there is a question, experts say, of who could step up and challenge a designation when, again, experts say there is no organization antifa.
MARTÍNEZ: NPR justice correspondent Ryan Lucas. Ryan, thanks.
LUCAS: Thank you.
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