STEVE INSKEEP, BYLINE: We have not heard enough about life in Venezuela since the United States seized President Nicolás Maduro, so we called a journalist in Caracas, Alberto (ph). He asked that we only use his middle name because he says journalists are targeted and threatened for speaking openly or negatively about the government. Last weekend, Alberto's family returned home very late from a day at the beach, and he hadn't been in bed long when he heard a sound like airplanes.
ALBERTO: The attacks were very precise and very swift. They came in, they bombed and they left. Because after just a half an hour, probably an hour, all the noise stopped, and there were no major affectations (ph) of civilian areas or buildings. It was around, like, 6 a.m. when we found out that he was actually taken into custody and brought to the - to USS Iwo Jima.
INSKEEP: What was it like on the streets of Caracas then, as the sun came up, as the news spread, and I imagine at some point you went out for a walk to look around?
ALBERTO: There's a lot of uncertainty. The feeling that you could get from social media and from people posting on their own personal accounts was a lot of joy. Finally, it looked like, like, the moment that we've been waiting for so long was going to happen, but we have learned to be a little bit more cautious when it comes to celebration, right? So you wouldn't find a lot of people in the streets yelling and shouting and cheering, right? You would find people staying inside, people trying to find out what was actually going on and what did it mean for them. And the next morning, what we saw was long lines to buy food, long lines to fill the tanks of gasoline 'cause people start foreseeing some unrest might be approaching, right?
INSKEEP: How did the mood change as a couple of days went on and it became apparent that Maduro was gone, but that the United States was going to let the government stay?
ALBERTO: Well, in the beginning, as I said, there was a lot of joy to know that Maduro was finally taken into custody, and we were all expecting that this would mean a significant change for the way the country has been run, right? And I'm talking as the average Venezuelan, right? I'm not talking as a journalist.
INSKEEP: Sure.
ALBERTO: But what happened was something that surprised us a little bit was the government said that the U.S. was going to run the country. We're all wondering, how does that look? By the time Delcy Rodriguez, the current president, the interim president was appointed, we're all surprised 'cause it only means that the only thing that changed was the president, but the system is still in place, right? We even had an interview with a person who said, like, of all the crazy people that he have - we have here in Venezuela, you took the most powerless person in Venezuela. You left us with Diosdado, with Delcy, with Jorge Rodriguez, with the ministry of the military of justice, right? So in practical terms, the situation in Venezuela - it's pretty much the same.
INSKEEP: Are you telling me that if it was up to you, you would rather that the United States had arrested some of those lower officials who have been pulling the levers of power?
ALBERTO: Yes. And if it was up to me, it would have been at least three people arrested 'cause this is the central figures of power here in Venezuela. Power in Venezuela has been driven by fear, intimidation, brute force. And the figures who control that is, of course, Maduro as the head of the government, but then you also have Diosdado and Padrino Lopez, right? These are the people who control the military, the National Guard. And actually, a couple of days ago, on January the 5, we were having the inauguration of the National Assembly, and the government made sure that they sent a message, a message that said to all the Venezuelans, we're still in power, right?
And you could see - 'cause in the center of Caracas was fully crowded -every corner you would see police, military, National Guard, heavily armed and prepared for riots. At some point, they were even getting inside the buses and asking people, show me your phone. Let me see your Facebook, your WhatsApp, your Instagram. Let me see. And whoever had a message supporting the attacks or saying something negative against the government would be taken into custody.
INSKEEP: I want to try to represent the U.S. argument for leaving the standing government in place, as I understand it - they've made a variety of statements. But one of them seems to be that knocking down the whole government could very well lead to absolute chaos in the country and might not even work. If the United States installed a leader by force, that person would be discredited as soon as they arrived.
ALBERTO: Well, I think it's crazy to say that, and I think it was actually a smart move to appoint Delcy Rodriguez, when you look into retrospective, 'cause it creates stability, right? Now, the main issue is that she's been appointed as a transition person, right? So what's next? What's going to happen? How long is she going to stay in power? Are we going to have elections again? Didn't they prove last year that they can rig elections, that they can stay in power if they want? So it only seems that what they did is that they sold one of their figures, their front man, but the band's still playing.
INSKEEP: Do people have hope?
ALBERTO: We did. On Sunday when they took Maduro, there was a lot of hopes. But the current government was very, very sure that those hopes were flattened almost immediately.
INSKEEP: What are your plans, if any?
ALBERTO: As dire the situation might be, leaving is not going to pose an improvement for me and my life. And I have family to consider as well. So, you know, if only - if I had to guess, I would say that the government is currently showing a certain disposition to cooperate with the American government - right? - to invest into the oil companies and to export more oil to the U.S., which we're very fine with, by the way. So it means that there's going to be some economic improvements for the average Venezuelan.
INSKEEP: Did you say that you're very fine with exporting oil to the United States again?
ALBERTO: We are, yes. I mean, we're giving it away for free to Cuba, right? So we're totally fine with negotiating - in negotiating with America, because logistically, it makes sense, but it also means that we're going to have more money in the short term. That's it. For the average Venezuelan, that means higher incomes, steadier jobs and an improvement in life conditions.
INSKEEP: Alberto, thanks for your insights. I really appreciate it.
ALBERTO: It's my pleasure.
INSKEEP: And be safe, please. Alberto is a journalist in Caracas who asked us only to use his middle name because journalists are being targeted there.
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