AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
This weekend, President Trump posted this online - he who saves his country does not violate any law. The most common attribution of that statement is to Napoleon, though it's not certain the French emperor ever said it. The line is reminiscent of something another U.S. president said, but first, let's welcome NPR White House correspondent Deepa Shivaram. Good morning, Deepa.
DEEPA SHIVARAM, BYLINE: Hey, good morning.
RASCOE: So I'm thinking of this famous line from Richard Nixon.
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RICHARD NIXON: Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.
RASCOE: He said that to David Frost in 1977, and now we're seeing President Trump test that theory - right? - as he and Elon Musk sweep through the federal workforce.
SHIVARAM: I mean, yeah, that's right. So there have been these massive sweeps of cuts to the federal workforce. And that's part of Trump and Elon Musk - who leads the Department of Government Efficiency - their goal to cut the size of the federal government. And this week, you know, Elon Musk appeared in the Oval Office, answering questions from reporters. That was very unusual. And in that same event, Trump signed an executive order outlining how federal agencies should implement the DOGE-led reduction for - in workforce for federal agencies. And probationary workers, who are recent hires, are the ones being targeted.
The problem, Ayesha, though, in all of this, is that there has been pretty much little to no transparency about how Elon Musk is going about doing any of this. I mean, literally, right before I got on air with you, I went to the DOGE government website, and under the tab that says Savings, it says, receipts coming over the weekend. There haven't been any receipts posted at this point. And in the meantime, as you can imagine, there have been a lot of blocks from federal judges and courts this week. Fourteen states have sued Elon Musk and DOGE and the president saying that these cuts to government spending are unconstitutional.
RASCOE: Yes. And the nation's governors are coming here to Washington this week for a meeting of the National Governors Association. So that's probably going to be a big subject of discussion. Deepa, JD Vance also just made his first international trip as vice president, and you reported on it. What kind of impression did he make?
SHIVARAM: Yeah, Vance's speech really stood out to me this week, because he was in Munich at the Munich Security Conference, which is an annual gathering. He's standing on European soil and was essentially scolding Europe. He said their biggest problem as a continent was not China or Russia but themselves. He brought up examples of what he says is censorship of conservative and right-wing views. He downplayed the impact of Russian interference in Democratic elections. And he was critical of limits on hate speech and disinformation spreading online.
And the timing of all of this is actually really critical because he said all of this just weeks before some countries in Europe, like Germany and Romania, are holding critical elections - ones where far-right parties and candidates have become more popular. And I was talking to one expert who said, if a European leader had made a speech like this in the U.S. before a U.S. election, the blowback would have been immense. And, you know, the response from some European leaders has been critical. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz spoke out against Vance's comments after his remarks in Munich and said that he just rejected them.
RASCOE: Ukraine was top of mind in Munich this past week. And now you have Trump administration negotiators reportedly heading to Saudi Arabia. What do we think those talks are going to look like?
SHIVARAM: Right. So this week, Trump held a call with Russian leader Vladimir Putin. It was very lengthy, and afterwards, he also held a call with Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy. And he said both leaders want peace. And he said that he would likely have some kind of a first meeting with Putin in Saudi Arabia. The details around that are not entirely clear.
But what has concerned some people, though, is that the Trump administration has already kind of, you know, said that it's, quote, "unrealistic" for Ukraine to join NATO, which is something that Ukraine has been repeatedly asking for. They say it's critical to prevent future attacks from Russia. And the U.S. has also said that Ukraine probably won't get its 2014 borders back. And Zelenskyy, you know, was on NBC's "Meet The Press" this morning, and he said that he hopes President Trump is negotiating in good faith. He also said Ukraine would not survive without military support from the U.S. And he said he believes Putin will wage a war against NATO.
And I will just say Trump, this week, also offered some other comments about Russia. He says that he thinks Russia should be let back into the G7 group of nations. That was previously called the G8 before Russia was kicked out in 2014 for annexing Crimea. And Trump says that it would be helpful to have Russia back. So there's been a lot of elements of that conversation that have been added this week.
RASCOE: That's NPR White House correspondent Deepa Shivaram. Deepa, thanks.
SHIVARAM: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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