Congress could be headed toward a partial federal government shutdown this weekend over funding for the Department of Homeland Security.
That budget includes spending for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
Senate Democrats want to include a number of reforms to the operations of ICE in this budget, but Republicans are strongly opposed to most of them. Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent, said the partial shutdown is justified to achieve the proposed reforms.
Vermont Public's senior political correspondent Bob Kinzel spoke with Sanders this week about his thoughts on reforming ICE. This interview was produced for the ear. We highly recommend listening to the audio. We’ve also provided a transcript, which has been edited for length and clarity.
Bob Kinzel: What are the key provisions that need to be included in this bill in order for you to vote for that budget?
Bernie Sanders: I mean, we can go all through all the things. Do I think people should be, federal agents, should be occupying cities? Obviously not. Do I think we should have roving vans of agents breaking down doors or throwing people into unmarked vans? Obviously not. Do I think they should have cameras on them? Yes, they should. Do I think they should be shooting innocent people? Of course not.
"The bottom line is, we have got to end what amounts to Trump's domestic army, which is terrorizing communities all over this country."Sen. Bernie Sanders
I mean, I could go on to a long list of demands, but the bottom line is, we have got to end what amounts to Trump's domestic army, which is terrorizing communities all over this country.
Bob Kinzel: Now Senator, Homeland Security officials argue that undocumented people are not entitled to the same constitutional protections that citizens are. How do you respond to that argument?
Bernie Sanders: I disagree completely with that. We have a constitution, and I think it applies to everybody. And I think, let's be clear, their argument is that, "We are going after all of the murderers and rapists who are undocumented. We're going to throw them out of the country." That is just not the case. That is not what they're doing.
I mean, perfect example is Pastor Steven Tendo, who has legal papers right now, who's working as a nursing assistant at UVM, and they arrested him. I think he's in New Hampshire right now, and that's true for many people.
More: Lawyer says Steven Tendo, detained by ICE, is being denied diabetes meds
People have, actually, papers. They have harassed American citizens, and they've gone after undocumented people who have lived in this country for 10 to 20 years, raising their families, doing their work. So this is, in my view, not about going after elite people who are committing crimes, but really using a domestic army to intimidate the American people in ways that Trump is doing day after day in so many respects.
Bob Kinzel: You've mentioned a couple of times that you refer to ICE as Trump's domestic army. Can the reforms that you're considering this week make much of a difference? Or do you think perhaps that ICE needs to be abolished?
Bernie Sanders: I think the main thing that we've got to do is get rid of the huge amount of funding that ICE was given during the Big Beautiful Bill, and we're working hard to do that. But I think serious reforms demanding that they operate, that ICE operates, legally, would be very, very helpful.
Bob Kinzel: You know, Senator, I think there are a lot of people in Vermont who are wondering, how likely do you think it is that a Minnesota or Maine style ICE operation might actually happen here in Vermont?
Bernie Sanders: Well, you are dealing with a president who I think is mentally unbalanced, who is an authoritarian, who acts impulsively. I'm thinking given, even their framework, their frame of mind, Vermont would not be a likely target.
And I would just add that if you look at Vermont, not to mention the rest of the country, and you understand that there are many, many undocumented people working on family farms — that's not a great secret — working in construction, working in the hospitality industry.
More: Trump’s deportation campaign has hit Vermont. Immigrants say they’re here to stay
If those people were to be driven out of the country tomorrow, do you know what that would mean for family-based agriculture in Vermont? You know what it would mean for dairy? Right now, dairy farmers are hanging in, barely hanging in, and if you lose their source of labor, it would probably take them over the edge, not to mention many other businesses.
Bob Kinzel: As you know, ICE facilities in Williston have become a hot spot for protesters who are upset that intelligence that is fueling arrests from around the country is being collected and distributed from Vermont. Do you share their concerns?
Bernie Sanders: Well, I feel — yeah, I do, but I feel the overall concern of Trump's movement toward authoritarianism, of which ICE is a significant part. ICE is the military force in authoritarianism. So, yeah, I share the concern about Williston, but the bigger picture is now we’ve got to stand up to Trump's authoritarianism in every way that we can.
