A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
All right. To help us understand what comes next, we're joined by Ambassador William Taylor. He served as U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush. Ambassador, so since life is mostly about optics, who won in Alaska?
WILLIAM TAYLOR: Well, A, as Greg just reported, President Trump went in with intent to get a ceasefire. He didn't get that. President Putin went in with two goals - one, to have his picture taken with the president of the United States, which he achieved, and the second was to divert or delay or push aside the threat of sanctions. I think Putin was actually spooked by the sanctions put on India, one of the - maybe the largest purchaser of Russian oil. So Putin got two of what he wanted, and Trump didn't get what he asked for.
MARTÍNEZ: So it sounds like a victory for Putin. That's what it sounds like you're saying.
TAYLOR: That sounds right.
MARTÍNEZ: OK. Did - now, did anything come out of Friday's meeting that will help us set up what's going to happen today at the White House?
TAYLOR: Apparently, there were - apparently Putin, as you've - Greg just reported, made some proposals to President Trump. And President Trump apparently is going to relay those. He's kind of in the middle. President Trump's in the middle between the Russians and the Ukrainians. And some of what he's proposed has come out, and the initial response will probably be negative. But if the Ukrainians do a counterproposal, there may be something to do.
MARTÍNEZ: Well, last night, President Trump posted on his website, on his social media site Truth Social about how President Zelenskyy could end the war if he gave up Crimea and also gave up NATO membership. So knowing that post is out there, how much will that kind of color what we might see? And how should President Zelenskyy kind of treat that, knowing that that's what Trump's - that's in Trump's head right now?
TAYLOR: So President Zelenskyy has some experience with this kind of demand or ultimatum. He had that same ultimatum from the secretary of Treasury, Scott Bessent, who came to Kyiv - you reported this, A, several months ago - with the first draft of a minerals deal that was very lopsided. And Bessent slapped it on the table, and President Zelenskyy - and Bessent said, you know, President Trump wants you to sign this right away. President Zelenskyy responded, no. I'll take a look at it, and we'll give you a counterproposal. He could do the same thing.
On the two things that you mentioned, that is Crimea and NATO, president - for example, a counterproposal could be, and the Europeans might support him on this, look, we will not recognize legal claim, Russia's legal claim, which they want. They want to make Crimea part - legally part of Russia. No. They could say, we accept that you're there now. You're there temporarily now. We accept that. That's a counterproposal. On the NATO thing, again, they could say no NATO for now. They wouldn't have to rule it out forever. That would be a reasonable counterproposal. That's the way things can happen.
MARTÍNEZ: In a normal world - right? - that's how negotiations happen, right? But somehow (ph), maybe we're not in a normal world right now. I mentioned earlier that Zelenskyy will have leaders with him, European leaders from France, the U.K., Germany, Italy and the EU. How much leverage can Europe push on the U.S. in this meeting?
TAYLOR: So it's really important who is there. I mean, there are some friends of President Trump in that group. He golfs with the president of Finland. He's got a very good relationship with the prime minister of Italy. He's got a good relation with the prime minister of Britain. So there are - and there's also - the NATO secretary-general has gotten along well with President Trump. So President Trump recognizes and indeed respects some of these -probably all of these European leaders, and they're coming united in support of President Zelenskyy. The Europeans are directly affected by this. Their security is really on the line, and they want Ukraine to win, prevail, stop the Russians in Ukraine so that they don't - so the Russians don't get towards them.
MARTÍNEZ: One more thing, Ambassador. Considering how you mentioned that President Zelenskyy has dealt with pressure tactics before from the Trump administration, and I'm assuming that President Trump probably wants to get this done as soon as possible and maybe end it as quickly as today, what do you think will happen after today's meeting? Do you think we'll have any resolution or even a path toward a resolution?
TAYLOR: I imagine, A, that there will be some consultations. If there is this kind of ultimatum pushed down on him, I imagine President Zelenskyy will want to have a consultation with the Europeans and with his own people. So that - it could be a good first step if they're willing to have this negotiation. But you're exactly right. The way to do this, they need a ceasefire first. They need to stop the killing and then be able to do the negotiation.
MARTÍNEZ: All right. That's Ambassador William Taylor, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. Thank you very much.
TAYLOR: Thank you, A. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
