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LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Time now for StoryCorps. Today, a conversation from inside the Four Mile Correctional Facility in Colorado. Those incarcerated there train wild horses on a nearly 6,000-acre complex. It's part of a program that helps them prepare for their release. Justin Leonard and Matthew Kurvink are serving sentences for armed robbery. They met working with the horses.
JUSTIN LEONARD: Being around the horses, at first I was pretty scared. Especially up close, it's pretty intimidating.
MATTHEW KURVINK: Yeah, definitely. I remember when I first got here and it was a lot to take in, you know, and you took me under your wing. The next thing I know, I'm on a horse. Fell in love with it really, really quick. Like, the smell of the grasses, and I could hear the Arkansas River, and I hadn't heard the river in I don't even know how long.
LEONARD: Yeah.
KURVINK: I guess I was so astonished at how gentle the horses could be. You look in their eyes and come to find out they're just creatures that also want to be loved and nurtured and feel safe. I don't want much different than what they want.
LEONARD: And they each have their own very unique personality.
KURVINK: Yeah. I think Hollywood, the horse I ride, he's misunderstood. When we had brought him out, he was really fresh.
LEONARD: Not super cooperative.
KURVINK: Yeah, not at all. So to bring him from rearing and acting up and all that stuff, it was, like, a learning experience for both of us.
LEONARD: If you're anything other than patient with these animals, you don't get the results.
KURVINK: You're right. It's not about dominance and fear. Maybe that works for some people, but that's not how I want it to work in my life.
LEONARD: Yeah. Like, you hear about breaking a horse, right? But really, you're developing trust with him, and you're not breaking its spirit. You just have to teach them a new way to communicate, and a lot of the time, they're willing to learn.
KURVINK: And then they become your friend.
LEONARD: Yeah, and it helps you just learn to respect life a little bit more, and it helped me realize that I do have the capacity to be more caring and patient than before. You know, I mean, my daughter, she's 17 years old, and I've been locked up about eight years. To have come to prison and missed out on so much of her life, those lost moments aren't restorable.
And I think having the clarity of mind that being out here working with the horses has given me, has helped me rebuild a relationship with her.
KURVINK: I grew up thinking there's just more bad things in life than good, and that's all you're going to get. But I'm learning we help each other. So I'm pretty confident in our abilities to get back to freedom soon.
LEONARD: Well, whether we're trimming hooves or running horses up and down the alleys, it's good to know that I've got a good friend with a good head on his shoulders 'cause it takes good company.
KURVINK: That's what'll get us there.
LEONARD: Yeah.
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FADEL: Matthew Kurvink and Justin Leonard at the Four Mile Correctional Facility in Canyon City, Colorado. Their conversation will be archived in the Library of Congress.
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