SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
For many people who grew up during the Cold War era, the fear of a nuclear clash between the U.S. and the Soviet Union was very real. But after the Soviet Union fell, that nuclear escalation ratcheted down, at least in the United States. Now, however, a new nuclear race has begun, and it involves three nations, not two. That's the assessment of chief Wall Street Journal foreign affairs correspondent, Yaroslav Trofimov, who recently wrote about this and joins us from Beijing. Thank you for coming on the program.
YAROSLAV TROFIMOV: Great to be in the program.
TROFIMOV: YAROSLAV TROFIMOV == TROFIMOV == CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
PFEIFFER: You write that the third player in this three-way race is China. Tell us about Beijing's nuclear program and what's known about its intentions.
PFEIFFER: You've described China's nuclear capabilities. How does that compare to the nuclear capabilities of the U.S. and Russia?
TROFIMOV: So the U.S. and Russia obviously have, each, about 5,000 warheads, but the majority of those are not deployed. So they are either in reserve, or they're stocked for a possible demolition. So the U.S. and Russia have an agreement that expires in February next year, the New START, that limits the number of these warheads. And so once that expires, if that expires, the U.S. will be free to ramp up its own production, and obviously, it's a very costly endeavor.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. A few weeks ago, President Trump was asked whether the U.S. will begin testing nuclear weapons again, and here's what he said.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We have more nuclear weapons than anybody. We don't do testing. You know, we've halted it years - many years ago. But with others doing testing, I think it's appropriate that we do also.
PFEIFFER: Yaroslav Trofimov, based on your reporting and analysis, is it true, as the president said, that the U.S. has more nuclear weapons than anybody?
TROFIMOV: Well, actually, Russia has a little bit more nuclear weapons than the U.S., if you look at the numbers from the Federation of American Scientists. Obviously, the exact numbers are not necessarily public. But what is interesting is that the U.S. intelligence agencies, for years, have been claiming that both Russia and China are actually engaged in a certain degree of testing. And, you know, we have to figure out what the word testing actually means. Testing doesn't necessarily mean blowing up a nuclear device with a mushroom cloud.
PFEIFFER: Right. And Trump hasn't defined what he means by that.
TROFIMOV: Exactly. Exactly.
PFEIFFER: Some of the anxiety around nuclear weapons is showing up in pop culture. I'm thinking about this new Netflix film, "House Of Dynamite." Since you cover this, how much loss of sleep does this cause you, if any?
TROFIMOV: Well, you know, we'll all die one day, of course, but...
PFEIFFER: But not that way, hopefully.
TROFIMOV: Yes. Hopefully not that way. I think the basic premise of mutually assured destruction is still there. That's what kept peace since nuclear weapons first emerged, and we now have nine countries in the world with nuclear weapons. So I think for now, the taboo on actually using nuclear weapons holds. You know, it's hard to predict the future. But so far, you know, governments, even the most irresponsible ones like North Korea or like the Soviet Union during some periods under Khrushchev, at the end of the day acted responsibly.
PFEIFFER: Let's end on that semi hopeful note. That is Yaroslav Trofimov, The Wall Street Journal's chief foreign affairs correspondent. Thank you.
TROFIMOV: Thank you.
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