LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Let's turn to a Republican with experience navigating conflict in Congress. Jeff Flake served in both the Senate and the House, representing Arizona. He left the Senate in 2019 after declining to run for reelection amid disagreements with President Trump. He also served in the Biden administration as ambassador to Turkey. Good morning, and welcome to the program.
JEFF FLAKE: Hey. Thanks for having me on.
FADEL: So President Trump says he can wait until after Senators Thom Tillis and John Cornyn leave the Senate in the new year. Do you think his assumption here that Republicans will keep a majority after the midterms is a gamble?
FLAKE: Well, I think Republicans are likely to keep the majority. It may not be the same numbers. They may be down one or two, but he also has to consider this is going to be beyond the midterms, and any president in his second term loses some power after the midterms in the second term. And the president will as well. So even if he holds the same numbers, he's likely to lose influence.
FADEL: You've been in touch with both Senators Thom Tillis and John Cornyn over their objections to Todd Blanche's nomination. What have they told you?
FLAKE: Well, they're holding firm, and they're not asking too much. To have written assurance on these issues is fine, and they should have that. Any lawyer knows that that's what is done. But as you mentioned in the lead-in piece, the president simply doesn't want to give those assurances because, one, he likes the weaponization fund, and, two, he likes the immunity deal, so he wants to keep them in play.
FADEL: Neither Tillis nor Cornyn have reelection battles to win. Do you think either of them would be objecting to this nomination if they were hoping to return to Capitol Hill?
FLAKE: You know, no Republican in the Senate likes these deals. They really don't. And John Cornyn, in particular, is very vested in the judiciary and the courts. And so I - and the DOJ, so I'm not going to say that he wouldn't be raising it, or Thom Tillis. They're dedicated, you know, competent members of the Senate. So I'm just glad they're raising it, and it did my heart good this week to see them standing up so firmly.
FADEL: But do you think they feel more free...
FLAKE: Yes.
FADEL: ...To do this?
FLAKE: No doubt. No doubt. The president has particular, you know, sway over Republican voters, that subset of a subset that controls primaries. So he's been able to threaten just about any member of the Senate - any Republican - from reelection. So that's given him considerable power, but that is now waning.
FADEL: I'm curious why you think more Republicans - who don't have elections to lose, specifically - are not pushing back on Trump when they disagree with him, including moving forward nominees - other nominees they don't think are qualified.
FLAKE: Yeah, that's been a source of frustration, I think, to the whole country. The Senate really hasn't been the Senate pushing back, so - but, you know, if you're a Republican and you're safe and you don't have to push back, you don't have to comment on these issues, if you're are - aren't on the relevant committees - and you just don't. You just don't want to pick fights that don't, you know, determine what's going to happen to you. So it's been a little frustrating, frankly, to see.
FADEL: How much leverage do Tillis and Cornyn have here? I mean, since President Trump could just leave Blanche as acting attorney general.
FLAKE: Yeah, he can. They can't do anything about that. But obviously, the Senate, you know, wants this process to work and continue, and so does the president. So, you know, they want - you know, they want a confirmed attorney general. Everyone does. So this is a big deal that the president would just simply say, I'm going to hold off until the next Congress. But you're right. I mean, he - they can't stop him from just putting Blanche in or keeping him there as the acting attorney general.
FADEL: And really quickly, you've said that you hope to see a return to divided government after the midterms. So I'm interpreting that to mean that you want the Democrats to take back a majority in at least one chamber of Congress. Why?
FLAKE: You know, any fiscal conservative, any conservative Republican knows that the best government is divided government when it comes to limited government. So yeah, it - that would be best in my view.
FADEL: Former Republican senator and former ambassador Jeff Flake. Thank you for your time.
FLAKE: Thank you.
FADEL: NPR has invited multiple Republican senators to discuss the Blanche nomination and other topics. Those invitations remain open. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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